Founders and Legends 2025?

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Necron 99
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Post January 6th, 2024, 12:49 am

Luke is running Founders and Legends this year, a con within a con, in celebration of the anniversary of D&D. According to the site, this is occurring because of the anniversary, but what I'm wondering, is if there is enough success, will he continue to run it in the coming years after.

From the information on the website, it seems like this is a one time event, but who knows what may be decided after GaryCon, this year.
Dungeons & Dragons was published in 1974, so we are doing something special to mark the 50th anniversary of the RPG genre in 2024. We literally have a once in a lifetime opportunity to celebrate 50 years of D&D®–so we’re doing it!

Founders & Legends Convention is more than just a con; it’s a sanctuary for those who yearn for the nostalgia and magic of the classic era of tabletop RPGs. Here, we pay homage to the pioneers who forged the path, and we honor the legends who inspired generations of gamers. Join us March 16 through March 18 at Lake Geneva, Wisconsin!

Another reason we organized Founders & Legends was to focus on the history of the TTRPG industry. The emphasis of F&L Con is our roots. We won’t exclude games because they are “too new,” but do encourage folks to run OD&D, Empire of the Petal Throne, Chainmail, Original Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Role Master, Gamma World, Champion, etcetera. We’ll have a host of Special Guests to participate in seminars and panels about where we started in the 1970s and how we progressed to current day.

For a convention of only a few hundred people, the “Guest List” of “Legends” is incredible! We’ll have more than more than 25 Legends coming to F&L Con including: Ed Greenwood, Zeb Cook, Erol Otus, Keith Baker, Kelsey Dionne, James M. Ward, Todd Stashwick, Bill Webb, Stephen Chenault, Jeff Richard, and more! Of course, Skip Williams and a horde of Gygaxes will be there too. If you weren’t able to get a Diamond or Platinum Badge for Gary Con, this may be a golden opportunity to game and talk with some of the Special Guests.
F&L sounds essentially like a throw back to the earlier days of GaryCon. If this is something that will become a separate part of GaryCon each year, then I can definitely see making an effort to attend just Founders and Legends in 2025 and forego attending "GaryCon".
“He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.” - Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien

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Post January 6th, 2024, 2:25 am

Necron 99 wrote: January 6th, 2024, 12:49 am<snip>
Dungeons & Dragons was published in 1974, so we are doing something special to mark the 50th anniversary of the RPG genre in 2024. We literally have a once in a lifetime opportunity to celebrate 50 years of D&D®–so we’re doing it!

Founders & Legends Convention is more than just a con; it’s a sanctuary for those who yearn for the nostalgia and magic of the classic era of tabletop RPGs. Here, we pay homage to the pioneers who forged the path, and we honor the legends who inspired generations of gamers. Join us March 16 through March 18 at Lake Geneva, Wisconsin!

Another reason we organized Founders & Legends was to focus on the history of the TTRPG industry. The emphasis of F&L Con is our roots. We won’t exclude games because they are “too new,” but do encourage folks to run OD&D, Empire of the Petal Throne, Chainmail, Original Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Role Master, Gamma World, Champion, etcetera. We’ll have a host of Special Guests to participate in seminars and panels about where we started in the 1970s and how we progressed to current day.

For a convention of only a few hundred people, the “Guest List” of “Legends” is incredible! We’ll have more than more than 25 Legends coming to F&L Con including: Ed Greenwood, Zeb Cook, Erol Otus, Keith Baker, Kelsey Dionne, James M. Ward, Todd Stashwick, Bill Webb, Stephen Chenault, Jeff Richard, and more! Of course, Skip Williams and a horde of Gygaxes will be there too. If you weren’t able to get a Diamond or Platinum Badge for Gary Con, this may be a golden opportunity to game and talk with some of the Special Guests.
F&L sounds essentially like a throw back to the earlier days of GaryCon. If this is something that will become a separate part of GaryCon each year, then I can definitely see making an effort to attend just Founders and Legends in 2025 and forego attending "GaryCon".
Blue emphasis mine.
For an event called FOUNDERS AND LEGENDS with the stated "emphasis of F&L is on our roots" then Luke needs to back it up by offering events like those specifically mentioned and others from that era and not be milquetoast so to allow WotC version games and other modern offerings. Isn't there enough room in Gary Con for 5e? Why open the door for the 5e crowd when the emphasis is supposed to be "on our roots"?
“Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan

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Post February 2nd, 2024, 1:27 am

I peeked at the events posted for F&L. Disappointing to see a fair number of 5e offerings.
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Post February 2nd, 2024, 6:39 am

Ancalagon wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 1:27 am I peeked at the events posted for F&L. Disappointing to see a fair number of 5e offerings.
Wow! No kidding? I can't believe they allowed that drek...so disappointing.
“He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.” - Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien

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Post February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 am

Decided to take a look at events too, here's a breakdown of L&F.

Events per system:
  • OD&D/BD&D: 27
  • AD&D 1e: 46
  • AD&D 2e: 5
  • D&D 3e: 3
  • D&D 5e: 21
  • AS&SH: 2
  • C&C: 4
  • DCC: 2
  • OSE: 1
  • Shadowdark: 7
  • Cthulhu: 2
Then a bunch of other random games...

Compare that with the actual GaryCon listing:
  • OD&D/BD&D: 57
  • AD&D 1e: 106
  • AD&D 2e: 16
  • D&D 3e: 17
  • D&D 5e: 305
  • D&D Adventure League: 312
  • Pathfinder: 66
  • AS&SH: 11
  • C&C: 75
  • DCC: 151
  • OSE: 13
  • Shadowdark: 42
  • Cthulhu: 61
For RPG events alone, there are over 1400 events, 89 miniature games, 173 board/card games.

Looking at future plans, especially for someone like Ben who is wanting to play a lot of C&C, if the Trolls don't offer their own convention then GaryCon looks like the largest draw for any convention offering C&C. I get the feeling that this year, being as big as it is, GC has jumped the shark. I feel like at this point, with the vast number of events offered, GaryCon has finally crossed the threshold for large conventions. I think the number of attendees going forward will remain at a level like this or continue to grow.
“He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.” - Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien

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Post February 2nd, 2024, 1:17 pm

Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 am Decided to take a look at events too, here's a breakdown of L&F.

Events per system:
  • OD&D/BD&D: 27
  • AD&D 1e: 46
  • AD&D 2e: 5
  • D&D 3e: 3
  • D&D 5e: 21
  • AS&SH: 2
  • C&C: 4
  • DCC: 2
  • OSE: 1
  • Shadowdark: 7
  • Cthulhu: 2
Then a bunch of other random games...
Cuz nothing speaks to the old "Founders & Legends" like 5e where its nearly impossible for high-powered superhero PC to actually face the real risk of death. :roll:
Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 am Compare that with the actual GaryCon listing:
  • OD&D/BD&D: 57
  • AD&D 1e: 106
  • AD&D 2e: 16
  • D&D 3e: 17
  • D&D 5e: 305
  • D&D Adventure League: 312
  • Pathfinder: 66
  • AS&SH: 11
  • C&C: 75
  • DCC: 151
  • OSE: 13
  • Shadowdark: 42
  • Cthulhu: 61
For RPG events alone, there are over 1400 events, 89 miniature games, 173 board/card games.

Looking at future plans, especially for someone like Ben who is wanting to play a lot of C&C, if the Trolls don't offer their own convention then GaryCon looks like the largest draw for any convention offering C&C. I get the feeling that this year, being as big as it is, GC has jumped the shark. I feel like at this point, with the vast number of events offered, GaryCon has finally crossed the threshold for large conventions. I think the number of attendees going forward will remain at a level like this or continue to grow.
OD&D/BD&D + 1e + 2e = 179
5e AL + regular 5e = 617
617 / 1400 (rough # rpg events) = 44% Pretty obvious where GC's primary focus is.

I agree about the number of C&C offerings. Given the relations between TLG and Gary back in the day and now with the relations between TLG and the Gygax estate, I don't see that changing.

If I were to reconsider attending GC for gaming endeavors, it would be to crack out on C&C and chat with the Trolls. And maybe get a 1e game in. But now that GC has gone to "big con" badge pricing, the difficulty involved with getting a room at the Grand Geneva (because I don't relish the idea of hiking or taking a trolley to a nearby hotel in winter or driving in from an off-site hotel and dealing with parking), continuing to lose focus with costume contests and stuff other cons do, and expanding head count to pack folks in like sardines, it doesn't seem likely at this time.
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Post February 3rd, 2024, 6:02 pm

Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 am Decided to take a look at events too, here's a breakdown of L&F. [snip]

For RPG events alone, there are over 1400 events, 89 miniature games, 173 board/card games.
The proportion of old-school events has been decreasing since 2012+ or so. We’ve done some statistical analysis on the events/registration data over on the Legio board and it’s damning.
Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 amI get the feeling that this year, being as big as it is, GC has jumped the shark.
Depending on how this year goes, it may be my last GaryCon: I’ve felt that the shark jumped for most of the last 10 years or so ;)

Allan.
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Post February 4th, 2024, 2:01 am

grodog wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 6:02 pm
Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 am Decided to take a look at events too, here's a breakdown of L&F. [snip]

For RPG events alone, there are over 1400 events, 89 miniature games, 173 board/card games.
The proportion of old-school events has been decreasing since 2012+ or so. We’ve done some statistical analysis on the events/registration data over on the Legio board and it’s damning.
Necron 99 wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 8:53 amI get the feeling that this year, being as big as it is, GC has jumped the shark.
Depending on how this year goes, it may be my last GaryCon: I’ve felt that the shark jumped for most of the last 10 years or so ;)

Allan.
Emphasis mine.
If it is, will NTXRPG be the destination for as much old school goodness as possible?
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Post February 4th, 2024, 10:26 am

grodog wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 6:02 pm Depending on how this year goes, it may be my last GaryCon: I’ve felt that the shark jumped for most of the last 10 years or so ;)

Allan.
I recall you mentioning the same thing back in the 2024 thread. I'll be interested in hearing your take after attending this year.
“He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.” - Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien

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Post February 4th, 2024, 11:05 pm

Ancalagon wrote: February 4th, 2024, 2:01 am If it is, will NTXRPG be the destination for as much old school goodness as possible?
That seems likely, to my eye.

Allan.
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